Noah, the Dove and the Fresh Olive Leaf
Of the twenty one translations posted on biblehub.com, only the Douay-Rheims translation says that the olive leaf was “a bough of an olive tree, with green leaves”, the rest refer to either a leaf or a freshly picked or plucked olive leaf.
While such discrepancies are immaterial, just sayin’.
I’ve blog posted a summary of the timeline of Noah’s Flood at
https://blog.answersinnumbers.org/2015/09/timeline-of-noahs-flood/
shortlink
From;
http://www.hobbyfarms.com/crops-and-gardening/grow-olives-for-olive-oil.aspx
As with climate, however, the ability of olives to tolerate lean soil conditions does not mean they are entirely invincible. The fastest way to kill an olive tree (short, perhaps, of setting it on fire) is to plant it in poorly drained soil. Olives hate wet feet–period. If you have drainage problems, plant something else. A common sight in olive orchards is a swath of dead trees corresponding precisely to a drainage swale.
– – –
Noah was born 1,046 years after Adam. For simplicity I’m calling the date of Adam’s birth, year zero, referencing dates forward from there (AA, After Adam). Don’t want to confuse simpletons like myself with a diminishing year count even though years are progressing forward.
Gen 7:11, flood begins on 17 February, 1646AA.
Gen 8:4
and on the seventeenth day of the seventh month the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat. That’d be 17 July, 1646AA.
Gen 8:5
The waters continued to recede until the tenth month, and on the first day of the tenth month the tops of the mountains became visible. 01 October, 1646AA.
Gen 8:6
After forty days Noah opened a window he had made in the ark, 09 November, 1646AA.
Noah sends out a dove which returns, having found no land.
Gen 8:10
He waited seven more days and again sent out the dove from the ark, 16 November, 1646AA.
Gen 8:11
When the dove returned to him in the evening, there in its beak was a freshly plucked olive leaf! Then Noah knew that the water had receded from the earth.
Gen 8:13
By the first day of the first month of Noah’s six hundred and first year, the water had dried up from the earth. 01 January, 1647AA.
So, some undefined (doesn’t matter) mountain tops become visible on 01 OCT, waters are well receded by 16 NOV, Earth is dry, assumingly dry enough for cultivation.
Forty Seven days elapse between the sighting of mountain tops from the already grounded Ark to the time Earth is ready for cultivation again.
– – –
From;
Gen 7:22
Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died
During the flood, all olive trees and all olive pits/seeds became waterlogged and useless as was the fate of all non-Ark life.
The ONLY way olive trees could or would grow and leaf again following The Flood is if Noah or one of his crew planted them. That was not possible nor viable until after the flood waters dried.
A viable pit could not have been planted and expected to sprout prior to 01 January, 1647AA, a few weeks more were then needed for the seed to germinate and then to sprout.
There is no possible way that a dove brought a fresh olive leaf to Noah in the Ark on 16 November, 1646AA.
– – –
Sorry Bible believers, the tale of The Dove Bringing a Fresh Olive Leaf to Noah is proven false by the tale itself.
Copy/pasted from http://biblehub.com/genesis/7-11.htm starting at Gen 7:11. Used text from the New International Version, differences between various translations appear inconsequential.
Genesis 7:11
In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, on the seventeenth day of the second month–on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.
Genesis 7:12
And rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights.
Genesis 7:15
Pairs of all creatures that have the breath of life in them came to Noah and entered the ark.
Genesis 7:17
For forty days the flood kept coming on the earth, and as the waters increased they lifted the ark high above the earth.
Genesis 7:19
They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered.
Genesis 7:20
The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than fifteen cubits.
Genesis 7:21
Every living thing that moved on land perished–birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind.
Genesis 7:22
Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died
Genesis 7:23
Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; people and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.
Genesis 7:24
The waters flooded the earth for a hundred and fifty days.
Genesis 8:1
But God remembered Noah and all the wild animals and the livestock that were with him in the ark, and he sent a wind over the earth, and the waters receded.
Genesis 8:3
The water receded steadily from the earth. At the end of the hundred and fifty days the water had gone down,
Genesis 8:4
and on the seventeenth day of the seventh month the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat.
Genesis 8:5
The waters continued to recede until the tenth month, and on the first day of the tenth month the tops of the mountains became visible.
Genesis 8:6
After forty days Noah opened a window he had made in the ark
Genesis 8:7
and sent out a raven, and it kept flying back and forth until the water had dried up from the earth.
Genesis 8:8
Then he sent out a dove to see if the water had receded from the surface of the ground.
Genesis 8:9
But the dove could find nowhere to perch because there was water over all the surface of the earth; so it returned to Noah in the ark. He reached out his hand and took the dove and brought it back to himself in the ark.
Genesis 8:10
He waited seven more days and again sent out the dove from the ark.
Genesis 8:11
When the dove returned to him in the evening, there in its beak was a freshly plucked olive leaf! Then Noah knew that the water had receded from the earth.
Genesis 8:12
He waited seven more days and sent the dove out again, but this time it did not return to him.
Genesis 8:13
By the first day of the first month of Noah’s six hundred and first year, the water had dried up from the earth. Noah then removed the covering from the ark and saw that the surface of the ground was dry.
Genesis 8:14
By the twenty-seventh day of the second month the earth was completely dry.
Many Atheists on twitter and elsewhere have extensive backgrounds as Christians since birth.
Speaking only for myself, I had doubts about the veracity of Christianity starting around age 5 ½.
There was, even then, a cognitive disconnect between dogma I was being taught and reality that I could see and experience. Still, at 5 ½ one does what is expected of one by parents and other authoritative adults. I learned the dogma, memorized the prayers, went along to get along.
“I believe in one God… and all things visible and invisible..” is the part of the Creed I was forced to memorize that began my youthful skepticism.
Age 18, out from under my parents immediate influence, church things ceased to be part of my life. I simply had no firm belief, no compelling desire to maintain the facade of childhood.
Many years of just cruising through life passed, I grew in my profession as one does with experience, became a rather voracious reader, hated the imbecility of TV. My reading was primarily what I considered then and now as trash fiction, lots of detective novels, some SciFi. I’m reading instead of TV or movies, escapist stuff, suspended belief.
Then I discovered action adventure travel true stories, Travels With Charlie, Blue Highways, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance (awful book, took four tries over ten years to complete it, Pirsig was an idiot), Cannibal Queen (where Coonts achieved what Pirsig set out to do, Coonts having no such goal). I’m reading real life now, digging it.
Moved along to Michener’s historical fiction where he follows the general sweep of history and major events, flushes things out creating personalities and dialog at a level that history rarely if ever records.
Now I’m liking history.
American History, the Revolution, oops, Tale of Two Cities slips in, The Civil War, First Immigrant (Native American) culture, Indian Wars/Genocide, WWII.
To this point I’m still more or less religiously indifferent.
Then came Biographies, Autobiographies. Read several, most now forgotten, Ansel Adams, Mark Twain and Tecumseh stand out.
I read several, back in the Library one day with no idea who to read about next, I stumbled across Darwin. Hmm though I, he’s that Evolution guy, huh. I’ll give him a go.
Mind, this was a biography, not an autobiography, not Evolution of Species, not Descent of Man, a biography.
Opened my eyes to a whole range of thought and science I had been oblivious to previously.
I started to THINK about what is really real, wonder about all the dogma I had learned as a youth.
But I still clung to a simple and basic belief in god, it was ingrained.
More years passed, the internet came along.
I watched the original Cosmos with/by Carl Sagan on YouTube. Not long after, the new Cosmos with Neil deGrasse Tyson came along, I eagerly looked forward to each new episode as soon as FOX released them on-line.
Watched a lot of Nova ScienceNow on YouTube.
Found and watched too many debates between Atheists and/or Scientists against varieties of theists.
SCREAMED at my monitor watching Bill Nye Debate Ken Ham, screamed more every time I watched William Lane Craig lie like a used car salesman/MLM huckster debating anyone, he’s the same every time. Need a raincoat and hip waders to get ready to watch him, a long shower afterward.
Found Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Ayan Hirsi Ali, AronRa, Matt Dillahunty, Seth Andrews, many more doing debates, lectures, call ins.
I cried a good long time the second time I listened to Julia Sweeney’s journey, “Letting Go of God”.
I have a lot of doubt by now, still clinging to a little faith.
THEN, I started reading the bible.
All remaining shards of my faith were now irrevocably shattered.
I cheated a bit, started with Revelations which I can only describe as hallucinogeniclly inspired. Whether the writers were using cannabis, opiates, psilocybin or peyote I cannot say but all were known and readily available in the Middle East in ancient times. The Authors of Revelations were stoned like Hunter S. Thompson on an extended bender.
Well, Revelations was great fun to read and dismiss, time to get serious, start at the beginning.
I took notes at the start, listing all the immorality I came across, didn’t bother noting all the contradictions, there were just too many.
I took notes only through Genesis 30.
Only up to chapter 30, we’ve seen, passive aggressive manipulation, godly threats, intimidation, coercion, homicide, attempted homicide and infanticide, adultery, slavery, repeated lying, incest, genital mutilation including infants, voluntary servitude extended by double through lies and misrepresentation, mass murder, pimping and pandering, prostitution, multiple exceedingly cruel, unjust and unusual punishments for extremely petty offenses, polygamy, misogyny.
Throughout I find the god of the bible to have great power over one small corner of Earth, no awareness that any other part of the world exists, awareness only of the pedestrian, completely ignorant of anything on microscopic and cosmic scales, has an attitude comparable to an 8 to 11 year old boy having trouble with playground bullies and writes out his revenge fantasies.
I cannot, will not, absolutely refuse to worship the capricious cretin that is presented as god in the bible.
– – –
Oh where was I back at the beginning, oh yeah.
Matt, Errol, if you are here trying to convert anyone back to christianity I suspect you’ll have little success.
If you are here wondering what makes atheists tick, a lot should already be apparent.
It’s a hard thing for us to avoid mockery on religion as we find it so very mock-able. I think this unfortunate because it’s a poor way to change hearts and minds.
Maybe you are here because you have some doubt gnawing at the veracity of your own faith. I hope you can see through the mockery, find yourself an enlightening path to rational thought.
I’m tiring here. Every thing I’ve written here brings another thought I’d like to put down but I’ve expounded rather long already.
I’ll leave with a partial Daniel Dennet quote of a powerful question that’s hard to pose, he does it poorly, I can do no better so;
“…there is no polite way of asking somebody: have you considered the possibility that your entire life has been devoted to a delusion? But that’s a good question to ask. Of course we should ask that question and of course it’s going to offend people…”
Matt, Errol, can you ponder that question? Admitting the possibility takes tremendous self reflection, it’s not easy. The reality based answers I’ve found are some of the most rewarding and liberating things ever in my life.
Life becomes amazing when you live life not for some alleged afterlife but life for the sake of the one life we know for certain we have.
The reward for having lived life well is having lived life well.
It seems to me to be a pitiable thing to live in fear of alleged damnation or greed for an alleged eternal reward.
The heart cannot embrace what the mind regards as nonsense.
The usual, Old Testament battles, slaughter and genocide continue unabated, we pick up the story with;
Balaam has the power to curse, Balac, son of Sepphor, King of Moab wants him to use this power against Israel. Balac sends some Princes to ask this task of Balaam, Balaam defers for the moment, intending to seek God’s counsel on the matter. God and Balaam seem to be on speaking terms, God nixes the plan, Balaam sends the Princes away in refusal of their request.
Princes return, offer Balaam generous bribes. Balaam again seeks God’s counsel.
God talks with Balaam, God allows Balaam to go with the Princes only if Balaam agrees to do exactly as God tells Ballam.
Morning comes, Balaam goes with the Princes but the ever capricious and fickle GOD has changed his mind, is now angry with Ballam for going with the Princes of Moab.
God can no longer be bothered talking directly with Balaam, instead sends an angel to block Ballam’s way with no explanation.
Ass sees angel, freaks and dodges into a field, Balaam beats the ass.
Angel now blocks a narrow walled lane, ass freaks again, dodges, squeezes Balaam’s leg against a wall, ass gets beat again.
3rd time repeat, this time in a very narrow passage with no room to move, ass balks, gets beaten.
Balaam still has no clue what’s up, thinks he’s following God’s instructions of the night before, has no clue at this point that the angel is even there, reasonably assumes the ass is misbehaving for no apparent reason.
Now, finally in 22:28, “Then the LORD opened the donkey’s mouth, and it said to Balaam, “What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?””
Alternate translations here; http://biblehub.com/numbers/22-28.htm
Balaam and his ass chat for a bit, blah blah to the effect of “I’m so angry I could kill you if I had a sword”, “have I ever treated you this way before?”(ass speaking) and so on. Neither Balaam nor his ass comment on how extraordinarily unusual it is for them to be conversing.
Then in 22:31 http://biblehub.com/numbers/22-31.htm “Then the LORD opened Balaam’s eyes, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the road with his sword drawn. So he bowed low and fell facedown.”
ABOUT EFFING time God reveals his passive aggressive mind game on Balaam, poor ass had to suffer so. God was perfectly capable in communicating directly with Balaam the night before, what’s up with all the Drama Queen King action now?
Drama drama drama continues, seven altars with animal sacrifices, wheedling by Balac, Balaam steadfastly stands by God, this guy’s name should be synonymous with steadfast.
On and on we go, skipping ahead to 31:8 http://biblehub.com/numbers/31-8.htm battles are done for the moment, death and carnage abound, victors survey the carnage and find “Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba–the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword.”
Not totally clear or concise here but there is an implication that Balaam was still alive at the point, fell to an Israeli sword when found among the other notable victims.
This is how God immorally treated Balaam who had so steadfastly obeyed everything asked and commanded by God.
No way I can leave out the so very choice very next verse, 31:9 http://biblehub.com/numbers/31-9.htm “The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder.”